#19 😰The PM Interview and Emotional Regulation Part 1 (Accessibility)
How fearless and accessible interviewing gets us all closer to our dream jobs.
Finding calm in my self-awareness since 2023.
Part 9 of the Product Manager Interview and Executive Function (EF) Series. Scroll to the bottom to see the domains of EF I’ll be covering in no particular order.
🌋Takeaways
Emotional disregulation is the often unseen part of ADHD that impacts everything we do.
Digital Accessibility is the practice and design principle to make websites and digital products accessible to people with disabilities.
Digital Accessibility is vital to those with disabilities to access the digital services they need to live.
When you are fearless and honest, your emotions empower you, not disable you.
A fearless interviewee is self-aware (as you can) of the role that you want and the skills you have.
A fearless interviewer creates a space for both parties to be seen and safe to share their needs.
Reminder mantra: Be Bold, Be Fearless, Be You
🐼I want some help being bold
😰Introduction
Emotional regulation is the ability to manage and respond to our emotions to events in a socially acceptable manner. For me, it was the most unexpected part of learning about ADHD. Emotional deregulation underpins my greatest challenges with the disorder. Before I was diagnosed, I thought I had the normal amount of shame, self-loathing, anxiety, fear of failure, rumination, imposter syndrome, and suicidal thoughts as everyone else. Then I found out these symptoms were common to ADHD. Neurotypicals may experience the same emotions as me given the same situation but, my ADHD multiplies my negative feelings by 100. Son of bitch, my life could have been so much easier had I known sooner. I can’t go back in time to change things. I can, however, tell you how I learned to get closer to my next dream job by bringing my fearless self to job interviews. The me that can experience a no-offer without shame, regret, and rumination. The me that is bold and empowered in interviews by being me.
**Out of respect for the companies and people I interviewed, all names and identifications are kept anonymous. If you’re one of the people in the story, I am profoundly grateful for our time.**
🐫A tale of two interviews
A few weeks ago I celebrated a personal achievement of going through 2 interview conversations as my fearless self. The me that doesn’t fear showing interviewers who I am, what I want, and what I can do. They were with two different companies with their respective senior product leaders. I was lucky that both were amazing people that made the experience transformative for me.
The first was an informal interview about a possible accessibility PM role. The second was a surprise new hiring manager, 6th round interview for an outbound PM role. One discipline I know well. The other I know can do but am new to. Both conversations have not led to final outcomes yet. Whatever they are, it won’t change what I learned. When interviewers and interviewees approach their discussion fearlessly, they become more accessible and inclusive, and everyone wins.
This issue focuses on interview #1, Acceslity.
Accessibility product management
My first interview was for a web accessibility PM role. Web accessibility ensures that “websites and web tools are properly designed and coded, people with disabilities can use them”1. It helps the "75% of Americans with disabilities using the internet on a daily basis"2 able to access the services they need to live. If you've ever used dark mode or enlarged text on a device, you have used an accessibility feature.
WCAG guidelines help designers, engineers, and product managers to create accessible products. Examples include making sure headers and titles are correctly ordered to allow a user to navigate a site properly without a mouse or providing alt-text to describe images through a screen reader device to a visually impaired reader. It’s often an overlooked product component that potentially impacts millions of people every day. 90% of websites are not accessible.
I admit to not prioritizing alt-text to all my posts until last week even though I know I have a visually impaired friend and reader (I’m sorry friend). Subtle changes can change the world for a disabled user. Check out Digital.gov or MSFT Inclusive Design to learn about inclusive and accessible design.
Being seen, and being honest
In 30 minutes, I met one of the smartest, kindest, and most inspiring product leaders in my career. One of their first questions was bluntly “Do you want to be a full-time ADHD Product coach or do you want to be a PM?”. It caught me off guard but forced a thoughtful question I had thought of but never said aloud. It put me in a mindset of introspection and grabbed the attention of my ADHD brain—the right size challenge.
Then they told me they had read 6 or 7 of my newsletters before we met and liked my stories. In these two statements, they had set the foundation of a safe space for me to be me. The unemployed PM with ADHD, case interview anxiety, and a weekly newsletter with memes galore. Holy shit, they see me. And I saw them. I could let go of my emotional baggage of failure and rejection and be the real me. We could be fearless.
Fearless questions and answers
Then they asked me an informal case question, “how would you build an accessibility program for a company?” My emotions did the unexpected. I didn’t panic or freeze. I didn’t start to fight off the nagging sense of shame that follows imminent failure. My brain didn’t speed up to a jumbled mess of solutions. My self-confidence didn’t start to melt like dropped ice cream in the summer.
My emotional state was intrigued and curious. I was in a state of learning, not survival. I asked questions and made statements about my experiences. They responded with their own. We went back and forth trading stories. My thoughts and self-confidence weren’t clouded by the negative emotions I had subconsciously trained myself to feel my whole life. I confidently stated the kind of PM role I wanted and was suited for. For the first time, I didn’t see an interview as a judgment or measure of my skills and life. I saw it as an opportunity for two people to share their fearless selves to grow and get closer to their goals, regardless of the job offer outcome.
✨Conclusion
Interview 1 taught me the transformative power that comes with being bold and fearless as the interviewee and interviewer. A fearless interviewee is self-aware (as you can) of the role that you want and the skills you have. Then bringing that honesty and boldness into the interview conversation. Allowing yourself to be empowered by your emotions rather than disabled. Be bold in learning if and how the role gets you closer to your goals.
A fearless interviewer creates a space for both parties to be seen and safe to share their needs. They fearlessly let go of bias and preconceptions to do their best to meet the interviewee where they are. They are bold in leading strangers to have honest, and cognitively accessible discussions of who they are and what they need. If it’s not a match, everyone can move on regret and shame-free. If it’s a match, it’s one step closer to a place where everyone is empowered to be who they are and to use their collective gifts to change their world. That sounds like a dream job to me.
Be bold, Be fearless, Be you.
Thank you to R, C, T, J, A, and J for their influence on this week’s story and for helping me find my own fearlessness as a PM and Coach.
🐼Ready to be fearless?
⏭️Next Week
Part 2 of emotional regulation concludes with Interview #2, Outbound product management. Honestly showing what you don’t know but being ready to learn.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/fundamentals/accessibility-intro/
https://blog.hubspot.com/website/accessibility-statistics